bridgetalk.com forums :: Laws & Rulings :: penalty card in each opp's hand

dan neill

penalty card in each opp's hand ( 04:22:50 SatApr 5 2003 )

Hi,
I was wondering, at our club, South declaring, East had a penalty card, and West gained the lead. Before director was called, West led to the next trick. This card was then a penalty card and play stopped there.

Now, is West's obligation to play the penalty card (the one he was going to lead anyways), or does declarer get his options vis a vis East's penalty card instead?

Who's fault is it that the director was not immediately called? Is West most at fault? What is the warning given?

Thanks
Dan

JimO

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Re: penalty card in each opp's hand ( 06:11:38 SatApr 5 2003 )

1) The Director should have explained all the options when he ruled East's card a penalty card. (Laws 9-11).

2) If the Director ruled East's card a minor penalty card, West is not subject to lead restrictions. (Law 50C)
If the Director ruled East's card a major penalty card, West is not to lead before declarer exercises his options - require of forbid the lead of that suit, in which case the penalty card is picked up, or allow West to lead whatever he likes, and the card remains a penalty card (Law 50D2). If the West leads before declarer has exercised his options, the premature lead becomes a major penalty card (Law 49). Declarer may accept the lead, but may still exercise one of his options, in which case East's card is picked up and West's card remains a major penalty card.

3) If West was not informed of lead penalties by the Director,
Law 82C (or perhaps Law 11A) may apply.

---
-Jim O'Neil
Oak Park, IL

bluejak

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Re: penalty card in each opp's hand ( 12:27:21 SatApr 5 2003 )

While Jim is right about the basic Laws let us dig a little deeper into this.

Quote: Dan Neill

Before director was called, ...

Why did the TD need to be called?

First possibility: he was a non-playing TD, had been called for the penalty cards originally, and had not stayed at the table. In this case it is pure TD error, and we use Law 82C to let the play finish with the card led but assign a score for the other side that assumes the alternative choice was made by declarer: in other words, both sides get a good score.

When a TD gives a ruling about a penalty card, he then stays at the table until all penalties are carried out, ie until the penalty card has been played, and thus is at the table to warn players against leading before declarer names an option.

Just occasionally this does not apply if he has another call he has to take, but he should still return as quickly as possible.

Second possibility: he was a playing TD. Now he may feel he has to go away. Even so, he will often find he can stay for a trick or two, and should try to as far as possible.

Third possibility: the players have not called the TD but assumed they were penalty cards. Now my sympathy for declarer disappears. The TD {b]must be called [the Law says so], and I would now designate the exposed cards as not being penalty cards [see the first paragraph of Law 50]. Too often this sort of situation comes about from the ignorance of defenders who do not know their rights and could have avoided some of the penalties if they had been warned.

I might not follow this line if I feel the defenders were rather more experienced than declarer.

Whatever, I would indicate to all four players that I am not happy at not being called when a card was exposed. This applies even if I was a playing TD.

---
David Stevenson <laws2@blakjak.com>
Liverpool, England, UK
http://blakjak.com/lws_menu.htm

dan_neill

Re: penalty card in each opp's hand ( 14:25:36 SatApr 5 2003 )

Country: USA

Thanks both of you. To confirm the details, I was the non-playing director. East's penalty card was major (revoke caught immediately). The director was not called ever until West led without declarer designating an option related to East's penalty card.

Our club is very small, rural, non-proprietary. I am trying to learn all I can about the laws by investigating situations as they come up, and perusing the lawbook often. Duplicate Decisions is a nice supplement, as well as the NABC casebooks, and various newsgroup/forums. But our club is kind of a microcosm of the ACBL in general I think. The emphasis is on having any game at all, rather than necessarily the correctly-run game, in these years of declining bridge interest in the US. There are welcome exceptions, especially at proprietary clubs.

When I became a director a year ago, the test was open-book (so I could have ANY references handy) and not too challenging. Even then, I barely achieved the 75% score or whatever needed to pass. So knowing the laws in the ACBL is not a major requirement to be a director. In practice, directing is 99% hospitality, where adhering consistently to 'some' set of accepted rules is valued to the customer over whether the rules are correct. Our club's accepted rules are different from the ACBL, and the members are loath to change.

For this reason, despite my personal values, I'll swallow my pride and go with the flow until I become a guru of the rulebook (like Jim and David), and then apply it with vigor.

Dan

bluejak

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Re: penalty card in each opp's hand ( 15:28:55 SatApr 5 2003 )

I do not object to "going with the flow" so long as you are sure what it is. But remember that in some ACBL clubs players are not dealt with when htye behave badly because it might upset them: please remember that this upsets their opponents!!!

As to calling the TD for a penalty card: just insist, firmly but politely, that it happens. In the quoted case I would have said:

I am very sorry, but I have been told that I am not allowed to treat them as penalty cards unless I was called at the time. I would like to help you, declarer, but the rules will not allow me.

---
David Stevenson <laws2@blakjak.com>
Liverpool, England, UK
http://blakjak.com/lws_menu.htm

JimO

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Re: penalty card in each opp's hand ( 16:44:21 SatApr 5 2003 )

Country: USA

Quote: Guest (Unregistered) at 14:25:36 Sat Apr 5 2003

Thanks both of you. To confirm the details, I was the non-playing director. East's penalty card was major (revoke caught immediately). The director was not called ever until West led without declarer designating an option related to East's penalty card.
Dan

This is what I suspected. It happens too frequently. Actually, once is too frequently.
Players will make their own - incorrect or incomplete - rulings and then I am called later to sort things out.
In this case I would likely have ruled no lead penalties against West, and given a warning to all four players for violating proper procedure: "The Director must be summoned at once when attention is drawn to an irregularity" - Law 9B1(a).

---
-Jim O'Neil
Oak Park, IL

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International Bridge Laws Forum

If you need help with the Laws or rulings from any country in the world, this is the place!Hosted by David StevensonSenior Consultant DirectorEnglish Bridge Union

If you need help with the Laws or rulings from
any country in the world, this is the place!

Hosted by David Stevenson
Senior Consultant Director
English Bridge Union