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richard morgan

Slow Play ( 18:08:58 MonMar 24 2003 )

Country: USA

What is consdiered slow play- by declarer or deferder? Number of seconds? Can the Director be called? What are the conseuqences? Thanks rmorgan7@nc.rr.com

bluejak

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Re: Slow Play ( 03:11:41 TueMar 25 2003 )

This is an enormous and very complicated subject so I shall just give a very simplistic answer, and then you can ask further questions if you wish. :sad:

Bridge is a timed sport, and roughly speaking there is a general allowance to play a round in, and each player has the right to roughly one-quarter of that time. Of course it never works as easily as that! :embarrassed:

If a player takes a full three minutes to make a call or play that is excessive, but if he and his partner play pretty fast the rest of the time so they have only used their allotted time between them then there is no problem. :smile:

The real problems come from people who are persistently slow. The only solution is to call the TD and let him deal with it. This is often very difficult, partly because people who are slow rarely realise that they are. :rolleyes:

There is no absolute time limit for an individual call or play, just for the overall time to play a round. :blush:

Does this help? :sheep:

---
David Stevenson <laws2@blakjak.com>
Liverpool, England, UK
http://blakjak.com/lws_menu.htm

mycroft

67 posts
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Re: Slow Play ( 18:56:16 TueMar 25 2003 )

A couple of points, although David, as is his wont, has given an excellent response:

If you are consistently slower than the rest of the room, and it's not because you're following a very slow pair, you should really look at ways to quicken your game up. This might be as little as ensuring that your opening lead is on the table, or your dummy is spread, before marking the contract in your personal score. It may, however, mean that you have to learn to play faster, as well!

If the director is coming to you frequently and telling you to pick up the pace, listen to her. You don't want her to get fed up and start issuing real slow play penalties (frankly, neither does she!)
If you start a round late, even if you are not in the least responsible for the late start, it is your responsibility to catch up, and directors will penalize you if you do not make an effort to do so.

Most of the frustration of "following a zombie pair all night" comes from the fact that one pays to play bridge, not to stand and wait...again. But some, maybe a lot, comes from the fact that one doesn't get the time allotted to other pairs to play the boards, and therefore won't score as well. This is another reason why we directors are so forceful about keeping the game moving, and getting on the perenially slow players.
It is perfectly appropriate for you to make your case to the TD. If it was totally your opponents that slowed you up, and the TD comes to the table about it, explain this to them. Don't accuse, don't "defend yourself", just explain what happened. Oh, and when it's your fault, explain that as well.

This doesn't absolve you of the above responsibility to get caught up! It may, however, help you not getting "perpetually slow pair" status (unless, of course, you are).

A very good (if ACBL-oriented) article on how to speed up your game without cutting into your bridge time is on David's web site: Hurry Up and Think!, by Bruce McIntyre.

As a TD, I have had more ugly situations due to slow play(ers) than due to all other rulings I have had to give combined - including the dreaded "disputed hesitation", "blatant use of UI", and "bad claims". As a player (my regular partners tend to be quick) I have had many TDs come over in private and thank us for catching the room up. We're happy to do so, but are still right irked about needing to.

Michael.

mycroft

67 posts
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Re: Slow Play ( 19:34:58 TueMar 25 2003 )

Hmm. About seconds:

You are allowed to think when it's the opponents' turn to call or play. If everybody realized this, slow play would be cut in half, at least! Note that there are situations where someone is required to take time; where playing quickly is actually both detrimental to quick play and improper.

After a jump bid, any jump bid, whether prefaced by the STOP card or not, players are expected to pause around 10 seconds (anywhere between 7 and 12 is probably right; you don't want to be excessively regular; note that 10 seconds can seem like an awfully long time - try timing it!), either thinking about their call or attempting to look like they are.

Frequently, they need this time. If you take it consistently, then when you do need the time, you won't tell your partner you needed it, and you won't put her under (the pretty drastic) UI restrictions. Similarly, when you have nothing to think about, pausing will not pass that information to partner, thus putting her under the same UI restrictions.

Equally frequently, jump-bidder's partner needs the time, and will get a chance to make his bid in tempo, as well. In fact, he is also entitled to the 10 seconds you should take. I do not see in the ACBL skip bid regulations about it, but you would have a hard time convincing me that LHO passed UI to her partner if she called in about 12 seconds after partner, no matter how much of that time was after your call.

Of course, there are those (and their name is legion) who will stare at you for the entire length of time you are pausing, with a "hurry up, idiot" look on their face, and then when you do pass in tempo, only then start to figure out what to do with their hand. I have no patience for these.
At trick 1, declarer should pause for about 30 seconds before playing from dummy. If he takes this time to work out what he is going to do during the hand, strangely enough, the hand will usually take less time to play than if he hadn't. Also, declarer's RHO is entitled to that same time to work out what to do during the hand, and will not be penalized (in the ACBL, at least) for "passing UI" by slow play to trick 1 if declarer does not sufficiently pause before playing from dummy. Again, thinking at trick 1, formulating a plan of what to do now, and later, and when declarer pulls trumps, and...will speed up the play of the entire hand.

When I'm in a speedball, "10 seconds" becomes about 7, so "30 seconds" becomes about 20. But I still pause, and I don't remember the last time I was late in a speedball, never mind being warned about it!

Michael.

HenryS

Re: Slow Play ( 20:57:44 TueMar 25 2003 )

Country: US

About pausing after jump bids:

On an auction, let's say, that goes 1h (p) 2nt* (p), 3c (p), 4nt* (p) 5d* (p), 6h (p) p (p), there are three bids that are jumps that technically require a pause. Taking those three bids together, about 30 seconds of time, or roughly 3.3% of a round's 15 minute time limit, is being wasted with no good or productive end.

I mention this because Kaplan cited this sort of auction as a consideration AGAINST the mandatory pause after all jump bids by opponents philosophy.

I must admit that I have always been one of those who always hesitated after a jump bid, even though such a practice often was greeted with 'hurry up dumbo' looks from the opponents who didn't want their time wasted.

So I don't pretend to suggest an answer to Kaplan's situation.

And let us not forget that slow play problems in team games are qualitatively different from pair games. Oddly enough, what was demonstrably the most effective deterrent - suspension of a slow pair after suitable warning for the next session (or more) during an early 1980s Bermuda Bowl - has been replaced by the less effective deterrent of imp penalties.

JimO

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Re: Slow Play ( 22:02:32 TueMar 25 2003 )

The problem with slow players is usually not slow play, nor bidding.
Most slow pairs are those who take an inordinate amount of time between hands, usually:
1) studying the traveling scoreslip as if there was going to be a quiz on it later - then passing it around to each of the other players, so they can study it as well.
2) lengthy post-mortems, and arguments with partner and/or opponents
3) arriving at the table late - especially the smokers and nibblers

The slow pairs in my clubs may not think of them as slow.
But I know who the slow pairs are, and that's what matters.

---
-Jim O'Neil
Oak Park, IL

bluejak

427 posts
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Re: Slow Play ( 01:25:02 WedMar 26 2003 )

Quote: Henry S

I must admit that I have always been one of those who always hesitated after a jump bid, even though such a practice often was greeted with 'hurry up dumbo' looks from the opponents who didn't want their time wasted.

In England, where in tournaments people tend to follow the Stop regs without comment, it is clear that the "waste" of time over pausing when there seems no obvious reason to do so causes no trouble whatever. Perhaps if people applied the rules on manners more forcefully, and dealt with the rude people and their "hurry up, dumbo" looks the game woudl be more pleasant for everyone.

Players should always make the mandatory pause over skip bids whatever the situation.

---
David Stevenson <laws2@blakjak.com>
Liverpool, England, UK
http://blakjak.com/lws_menu.htm

robin

Re: Slow Play ( 14:34:43 ThuMar 27 2003 )

Country: UK

Smoking seems to be a good way of -speeding- up your game- since many events are non-smoking, most smokers have a definite incentive to finish the round early! An unexpected fringe benefit of banning smoking at the table?

172 posts
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Re: Slow Play ( 16:35:04 ThuMar 27 2003 )

Quote: Guest [Unregistered

at 20:57:44 Tue Mar 25 2003]About pausing after jump bids:

On an auction, let's say, that goes 1h (p) 2nt* (p), 3c (p), 4nt* (p) 5d* (p), 6h (p) p (p), there are three bids that are jumps that technically require a pause. Taking those three bids together, about 30 seconds of time, or roughly 3.3% of a round's 15 minute time limit, is being wasted with no good or productive end.

I mention this because Kaplan cited this sort of auction as a consideration AGAINST the mandatory pause after all jump bids by opponents philosophy.

I disagree. The purpose of the pause is to avoid potential UI problems. Since you never know when such problems may crop up, the procedure can hardly be characterized as having "no good or productive end".

As for Kaplan, he was a wise man, but he wasn't always right. :smile:

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bluejak

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International Bridge Laws Forum

If you need help with the Laws or rulings from any country in the world, this is the place!Hosted by David StevensonSenior Consultant DirectorEnglish Bridge Union

If you need help with the Laws or rulings from
any country in the world, this is the place!

Hosted by David Stevenson
Senior Consultant Director
English Bridge Union