bridgetalk.com forums :: Laws & Rulings

terry

1NT continuation ( 11:11:43 TueMar 25 2003 )

Country: england

I have always thought 1NT-2d-2h-3d playing transfers but then just showing diamonds to be illegal, but where does it say so in the orange book or elsewhere?

bluebird

Re: 1NT continuation ( 11:41:51 TueMar 25 2003 )

Country: Spain

I think this is not a convention problem but ilegal use of the convention (two meanings for the same bid) or UI (when the opener do not alert or alert the 2D bid is when the responder know that he has missbid).

bluejak

427 posts
Forum Host

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Re: 1NT continuation ( 12:21:23 TueMar 25 2003 )

To play 1NT - 2

- 2

- 3

as diamonds is perfectly legal at Level 2 or higher. All responses to 1NT are permitted. There are, however, two snags.

First, you may not call the 2

bid a transfer. If 2

is a transfer then it shows hearts unambiguously. If you play it as either hearts, or weak with diamonds, that is how you must describe it, both on your convention card and in answer to questions.

Second. some people confuse this with a defensive sequence, where 2

is an overcall. Suppose you agree to play Asptro, where 2

shows spades and another: you may not use the sequence (1NT) 2

- 2

- 3

to just show diamonds at Level 2 or Level 3.

Furthermore, if you want to play (1NT) 2

as either spades and another suit, or just diamonds, at Level 4 where it is legal (since any defence to 1NT is permitted at Level 4) then you may not call it Asptro: you must describe it on your convention card and in answer to questions as either spades and another suit, or just diamonds.

---
David Stevenson <laws2@blakjak.com>
Liverpool, England, UK
http://blakjak.com/lws_menu.htm

AlanW

Re: 1NT continuation ( 12:38:04 TueMar 25 2003 )

My reading of the Orange Book (section 12.5.3) is that any system of responses to 1N is allowed.

If so, the only issue is whether the circumstances you are envisaging might give rise to UI. If the convention card stated that 2D asked opener to bid 2H and showed either D (if followed by 3D) or H then I cannot see a problem, and similarly if 2D was alerted and explained as such. If 2D was simply stated as transfer and the convention card did not help, then it may be that the explanation was simply inadequate or it may be that the agreement really was than 2D showed hearts, in which case opener must presumably bid on assuming responder has H+D.

AlanW

Re: 1NT continuation ( 12:42:30 TueMar 25 2003 )

Sorry - I see David has provided a much more definitive reply than mine. I was interrrupted in writing my response and didn't see he had answered by the time I finished!

RMB

19 posts
bridgetalk member

Re: 1NT continuation ( 12:51:17 TueMar 25 2003 )

If the auction goes


W       N       E       S
1NT     Pass    2(A)  Pass
2(A)  Pass    3(A)  End

At her first turn, South asks and is told "transfer to hearts" and asks at her second turn and is told "NF, just diamonds", and the EW convention card says "red suit transfers", is this ruled as a concealed partnership understanding (law 40B) or just misinformation?

bluejak

427 posts
Forum Host

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Re: 1NT continuation ( 01:02:46 WedMar 26 2003 )

Does it really matter? It is misinformation both ways.

---
David Stevenson <laws2@blakjak.com>
Liverpool, England, UK
http://blakjak.com/lws_menu.htm

RMB

19 posts
bridgetalk member

Re: 1NT continuation ( 10:24:06 WedMar 26 2003 )

bluejak asks "Does it really matter?"
I thought we (EBU) fined players for having CPUs.
Isn't that the basis for our treatment of psyches?

bluejak

427 posts
Forum Host

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Re: 1NT continuation ( 10:52:27 WedMar 26 2003 )

It is part of our treatment of psyches, that is true, but I was not aware that an effect of that is to treat different situations similarly.

---
David Stevenson <laws2@blakjak.com>
Liverpool, England, UK
http://blakjak.com/lws_menu.htm

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International Bridge Laws Forum

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International Bridge Laws Forum

If you need help with the Laws or rulings from any country in the world, this is the place!Hosted by David StevensonSenior Consultant DirectorEnglish Bridge Union

If you need help with the Laws or rulings from
any country in the world, this is the place!

Hosted by David Stevenson
Senior Consultant Director
English Bridge Union