bridgetalk.com forums :: Laws & Rulings :: Foreign language between boards

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Foreign language between boards ( 12:31:49 FriSep 27 2002 )

The following query has been copied from IBLF's previous home on Bravenet.

Hi all,
I'm looking for advice (or comments based on appropriate regulations in your country) regarding following opinions:

'It is at any time very unethical to talk in other language during or between hands at the table.' (local club director)

And 'When a foreign language is used, even if it is not when the bidding and play is in progress, but between hands, some members (players) are going to become very uncomfortable, because they don't now what is going on. This is
clearly an unacceptable situation.' (local club official)

And
'The use of foreign language between boards is unacceptable.' ('legal authority in such matters')

As an observatory on behalf of the claimant ('not welcome' older person who can speak virtually no English) I need desperately your opinion before Wednesday, 2 October, to form my view on that matter before The Conciliation Conference at the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity
Commission.

Best Regards

Jarek Gasiorek
Email: jarek_g@hotmail.com

Sydney
Australia

bluejak

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Re: Foreign language between boards ( 12:46:04 FriSep 27 2002 )

The following reply has been copied from IBLF's previous home on Bravenet.

For a start the word unethical is unfortunate. It is either permitted or not permitted to talk in another language. It would only be unethical if it were nto permitted, the players knew it, and did it anyway.

In most events in English-speaking countries players are not permitted to speak in any language but English while the board is in play, but they may converse in their own language between hands. They should stop immediately one of thme takes the hands out of the board for their next hand [or, more technically correct, as soon as one of them looks at the face of one of his cards].

It is legal, however, for the sponsoring organisation to have other regulations, and it is known in international events for only English to be permitted during a playing session. If this is one of the Conditions of Contest then it must be adhered to, and it is a legal one.

Now, if there are no regulations in force at all, it would be normal to allow players to talk in other languages between hands but not to permit them during a hand unless the other side knew the language as well.

Now I shall comment on the specific quotes.

Quote:

'It is at any time very unethical to talk in other language during or between hands at the table.' (local club director)

As I explained earlier it is not unethical, and is fairly normal between hands.

Quote:

'When a foreign language is used, even if it is not when the bidding and play is in progress, but between hands, some members (players) are going to become very uncomfortable, because they don't now what is going on. This is clearly an unacceptable situation.' (local club official)

That is pure sefishness. This is the sort of attitude that has led to so much discrimination over the years. Would he ban braille cards if the player was blind saying it is unacceptable for his opponnets?

Quote:

'The use of foreign language between boards is unacceptable.' ('legal authority in such matters')

Same reply: this is discriminatory and persecution.

While internationals are another matter, for ordinary club events to ban speaking in foreign languages between hands is at the same level as banning blacks or women because they make their opponents uncomfortable.

Nevertheless, it is a matter for regulation. In the absence of a regulation speaking in any way between hands is accepted. During hands is different because of the possibilities of illegal communication between partners.

---
David Stevenson <laws2@blakjak.com>
Liverpool, England, UK
http://blakjak.com/lws_menu.htm

Jens Brix Christiansen

Re: Foreign language between boards ( 19:51:22 MonSep 30 2002 )

In the DBF (Denmark) we have no regulations that cover the choice of language. It is more or less understood that the events are conducted in Danish, but we have players who speak no Danish in our highest level teams competition, and we allow them to request and give explanations at the table in other languages.

Law 73 regulates communication between partners during the auction and play period. It forbids partners to commmunicate except by means of calls and plays. Any type of communication (if specifically relevant to the game) in any language is thereby not allowed, but small talk as such is usually tolerated. The choice of language for such small talk makes little difference to me.

Law 74A2 instructs players to refrain from actions that annoy the opponents. I suppose that you might annoy the opponents by talking in a language they do not understand, but that would then have to go both ways. If, in a Danish tournament, a pair feels annoyed by an opposing pair that talks privately in Polish, one might consider that a private conversation in Danish would be equally as annoying to the opponents who know no Danish. One could, of course, claim that a pair that plays in Denmark has no right to feel annoyed at a private conversation in Danish, but such a one-sided sentiment cannot, to my mind, be derived from the Bridge Laws.

All in all, it is all a matter of courtesy and etiquette, and it is difficult for me to see how that could warrant a tag of "very unethical".

My personal views on this matter are probably colored by the fact that Danish is spoken by less than one out of every thousand human beings, so for a Dane it is an obvious fact that most people do not speak our language, and we would never find it "very unethical" for foreigners to communicate in a language other than Danish. I cannot imagine that the quotes given in the original post originate in Denmark or in a similar place in the world where a small language is spoken.

[Jesper Dybdal]

Re: Foreign language between boards ( 18:05:59 TueOct 1 2002 )

I agree with David and Jens, particularly Jens' point that discussion in a foreign language between hands is a matter of courtesy and etiquette. I would definitely not use the word "unethical" about it.

If the players speak the event's official language well enough, I would consider it more polite to do so than to use a foreign language, but that is all.

Jens says that "we have players who speak no Danish in our highest level teams competition". This is of course correct, but perhaps it should be added that these players have partners who speak Danish and can translate questions and explanations if necessary.

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Re: Foreign language between boards ( 21:40:10 ThuOct 3 2002 )

I agree with the responses in this thread, mostly. I have some sympathy with a player who does not speak the local language, and thus may need to communicate through an interpreter. But for a pair to conduct a private conversation, in a language foreign to others at the table, during the round, seems at best rude to me. The problem, it seems to me, is not so much that they might be (dare I use the word?) cheating, but that their opponents have no way of knowing. At least if they're communicating via some unusual means (Morse code, finger position, kicking each other under the table) opponents (and officials) will have some clue that something odd is going on.

I suppose the TD could tell such players not to conduct such conversations. Continuing to do so would then subject them to penalty under L81B8, if nothing else.

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International Bridge Laws Forum

If you need help with the Laws or rulings from any country in the world, this is the place!Hosted by David StevensonSenior Consultant DirectorEnglish Bridge Union

If you need help with the Laws or rulings from
any country in the world, this is the place!

Hosted by David Stevenson
Senior Consultant Director
English Bridge Union